3. Bishr Haydar, Michigan Medicine- Use of spinal shouldn’t have massive
impact on immediate opioid consumption during the OR they wouldn’t
receive much by way of opioid so they should be excluded I would think
from the measure. For patients with regional, certainly they are going to
benefit from not receiving any immediate opioids and might have an
entirely opioid free course. So, I would think that they should be
included
4. Shobha Malviya, Michigan Medicine- Would we include the patients
getting spinal morphine for hernia repairs? I would not consider that a
non-opioid adjunct strictly speaking
5. Bishr Haydar, Michigan Medicine- I would agree with that. The use of
intrathecal opioids for postoperative analgesia shouldn’t impact the
adverse events associated with opioids
6. Carrie Menser, Vanderbilt – At a minimum you would want to count it as
a success if you used a regional technique that involved local anesthetic
in particular. I think you are dealing with a pretty small subset of
patients that are receiving intrathecal opioids only, that’s a pretty
defined population. Most of them are going to be utilized in conjunction
with a local anesthetic at which point it would be systemically opioid
sparing
7. Joe Cravero, Boston Children’s- I would agree. What we have done in
studies that we have looked at where we have used either epidurals or
spinals with opioids is we consider it different from systemic opioids
because the dosing is so hard to compare and it constitutes a regional
intervention. I think strictly speaking you are right it is the use of an
opioid but to us it is considered a different use of an opioid so it is
considered regional, not like a systemic opioid, knowing that some of it
does get systemic so it does get messy, but I would agree with the last
comment that it should be considered separately
8. Nirav Shah, MPOG Coordinating Center- should a regional with local
anesthetic be considered a non-opioid adjunct?
9. Joe Cravero, Boston Children’s- Absolutely
ii. Brad Taicher, Duke- I think non-opioid adjunct is tough phrasing, opioid sparing
is better. It is still opioid sparing from a parenteral perspective
iii. Meridith Bailey, MPOG Coordinating Center- The regional phenotype should be
ready in the next couple of weeks
1. Next steps would be to add it to the measure code and then review the
cases to validate that it is grabbing the cases accurately
iv. Wilson Chimbira, Michigan Medicine- In that case, I recommend we wait until its
ready. I think if we have it informationally only then we will be missing a lot of
opioid sparing adjuncts